So does myth point away from Jesus, or to Jesus?
For C. S. Lewis, ancient myths point to Jesus. Jesus is the “True Myth” as he famously said. With Jesus, myth becomes fact. This is what, in part, led him to write the Narnia books, which speak about Christ in mythological terms. Concerning the story of redemption in the gospels, Lewis wrote:
“If ever a myth had become a fact, had been incarnated, it would be just like this. And nothing else in all literature was just like this. Myths were like it in one way. Histories were like it in another. But nothing was simply like it . . . Here and here only in all time the myth must have become fact; the Word, flesh; God, man. This is not "a religion," nor "a philosophy." It is the summing up and actuality of them all.” (C. S. Lewis, Surprised By Joy, (1955) New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, p. 88.)
However, for Acharya S (author of “Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ”), myth points away from Jesus. For her Jesus is the greatest story ever sold! A conspiracy. I met her recently at the screening of the film “Zeitgeist - The Movie” which she helped produce.
I have known of Acharya for over 7 years via cyberspace. As it happened, back in 1998 I authored and posted “THE INCREDIBLE MITHRAS MYTH” on Hollywood Jesus (see below) and it sparked a considerable debate. Several cyber visitors to HJ referred me to her controversial book The Christ Conspiracy. So, when I had the opportunity to meet the author recently I was thrilled.
I thought I would let Acharya present her case uninterrupted and post it on HJ in connection with the release of “Prince Caspian.” Here is her take, what do you think?
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Below is my take as I posted it in 1998:
THE INCREDIBLE MITHRAS MYTH (FROM 1998)
Christmas, the birth of Christ, is celebrated on December 25. But, Jesus wasn’t born on this date. So where did the date December 25 come from?
Here are some comments I received (P. S. I am curious about your thoughts)
My comments are in italic
MITHAS AND EARLY CHRISTIANITY
Subject: Mithras
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001
From: C T Blake
While I find your sight interesting, I think you are missing much more than is getting posted on the cross-over myths between Mithraic and Christian thought.
Mithras DOES have a resurrection story- see the stories of Mithras under the mountain (usually associated with Ararat- yup, the Ark one, which explains how it got it’s "holy" status)- it also has the Mithraic angle on the end of the world, the last conflicts with Ahriman, etc).
Don’t forget that the Symbol always associated with Mithras (aside from the obvious Phrygian cap, bull, dog and the rest of the usual symbology) is– you guessed it- the cross. Mithraic (as well as other solar cults) used the symbol of the cross as a symbol of the Sun. This also puts an interesting spin on the story of Constantine’s cross story….and how his Danubian troops (who already marched under the "Sol Invictis"- Mithras) were able to later convert that Mithraic symbol to a more respectible memory later.
The Cult of Mithras was largely wiped out– violently– by the early Christian Church, in violence usually associated with thier internal squabbles. Perhaps they realized that, because they had copped so much from Mithras that they couldn’t allow it to survive? It’s interesting how most of the Mithraruem we find are under churches, monestaries and nunneries, while the few that aren’t are those that had been buried and lost. Somebody was pretty ruthless in wiping out most of the sites of Mithras.
Interesting.
CT Blake Nacogdoches, Texas
Response: Thanks for the additional insight. I appreciate it. -David
TRUTH IN MITHRAS
From: Lorena
David, I just visited your site about Mithras for research on the novel I’m writing at first, but a lot of the things I read got me thinking. You see, I’ve known about Mithras for good few years now, but my parents would never let me research anything about him without a just reason (my father is a Presbyterian minister and my mom is quite set on her Christian beliefs…which is just about anything Dad preaches about). I think I discovered why–your site got me thinking. Not that that is a bad thing, but I think my parents wanted to keep me on the ’straight and narrow’ so to speak and not question my faith.
The myth surrounding Mithras, this supposed god of Truth and Light, was it basically a prophesy by the Persians proclaiming the coming of a Savior, or am I looking at this all wrong? (You are right). Also, I had read somewhere that Mithras killed the white bull so that man could live forever, (not true, it is the defeat of darkness) and then he himself was crucified in a similar fashion to Jesus (not true, Mithras is a story created from the night sky constelations) …though Mithras ‘existed’ much earlier in history (not true, no such histoical person was ever thought to exist by any group). And the star that led the Magi to Bethlehem…does that have a place in the myth as well? (myth points to central truth -Jesus Christ)
Thank you, Lorena
MITHRAS AND THE TEACHING OF JESUS
From: Frances
I have been (still am) on a site called Christianity - General. For a very long time (70 years old) I have been reading everything I could on all the religions and have been struck by the similarities by them and the New Testament Gospels. I keep being told that the cult of Mithras was not around at the time of Jesus, yet everything I read tells me the opposite (Your readings are correct). For me, every past religion has lead up to Christianity and possibly to others newly as come. Was not Mithra the Roman soldiers god of worship and still in practice at the time of Jesus. (Yes) The similarities between Christianity and Mithra is just too coincidental. (There are also, major dissimilarities: Mithras is found in the star stories, not in history, Mithras has no death and resurrection. But there is truth contained in the Mithras myth that points to Jesus: light overcoming darkness, etc.) Not that Jesus was wrong to preach a way of life, but the Christian communities maniacal desire to erase anything that is even close to anything that Jesus taught. In a sense He did not teach "something" new, it was always there, (true, not so much in myth, as in Hebrew scriptures) but that He re-iterated all the positive concepts for people to follow. (Yes, but also "I am the way, the truth and the life" statements are unique to Jesus). Would you be kind enough to enlighten me if I am really as wrong as these fundamentalists believe I am. I am always ready to accept and repent of my errors.
Frances Greenfield
Response: Yes you are generally right. Many Christian have a deep fear of myth. I have none. And all myth points to a central truth: Jesus Christ. -David
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May 22nd, 2008 at 6:07 pm
C.S. Lewis did not write his books as an anthropomorphism for Jesus. He and some other well known writers wanted to write tales to give England back some mythology that was lost due to the invasions of the Anglo-Saxons and furthur culture draining from the Christian movement. Ancient cultures have many representations of a God (Creator) and messenger of the Creator or even a child of Creator. Jesus is another representation of a messenger spirit whether he was real or not that was used with the power of the Roman Empire to spread their power over the world. It is such a shame they chose to do it that way. The lion in the Narnia tales is not a representation of Jesus, he is just a fictional character. The lion is a strong character in English culture introduced by the Greeks and Romans then used in symbols of valor. It was something people could relate to in his stories as a powerful figure. I think it is very important to know your history and know how religions are formed and how they affect societies. There were ancient societies with knowledge that dated back over 10,000 years that the Christians wiped out and covered up with Christianity. If you take Christianity for what it is, and just be kind and caring to all people whethere they are Christian or not than you have a kind heart. If you believe it should dominate all belief systems in the world and everyone else is bad, then you are not listening.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Having read the Christ Conspiracy I would like know why on Earth has Acharya S not received some type of Nobel-like prize? What an invaluable gift she has made to thinking people the world over.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I apologize I said England, and I meant Ireland too. Lewis was Irish. But it goes for both cultures though. If you read about his history he was very interested in his ancient Celtic culture, but he later supressed it with Christianity. I don’t know what their laws were there at the time, but for my people some had to hide through the church to keep from being arrested for believing a different way.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Hey tsongbird thanks for posting. Do I understand you correctly? Are you trying to say that CS Lewis did not intend to be writing of Jesus when you comment: “The lion in the Narnia tales is not a representation of Jesus, he is just a fictional character”?
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Hey Harvey Diamond, I agree Acharya’s book is well researched and written. It is the best in its field that I have read. I was happy to be able to spend time with her while she was in town. I now count her as a friend.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 pm
“The lion in the Narnia tales is not a representation of Jesus, he is just a fictional character”?
Yes that is what I am saying.
The Lion is just a fictional character.
I don’t know if you ever saw a news clip where some church leaders were handing out lion stuffed animals to children telling them that it represented Jesus.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Of course a talking lion is fictional. But, you seem to be saying Aslan was not the mirror of Jesus in the mind of Lewis? Hmm, I do not know of a single scholar who would agree. Do you?
Most scholars, I think, would echo Spark Notes: “Aslan’s despondency mirrors Jesus’s agony in the garden of Gethsemane, when he struggled to face his impending crucifixion. Aslan’s warning that he may not be at the battle suggests that does not know of his own resurrection. While writing this book, Lewis was aware of a school of thought that Jesus himself did not know he would be resurrected following the crucifixion. Similarly, Aslan feels hopeless and seems unaware that he will rise from the dead. Despite this, Aslan still gives up his life so Edmund can live. Lewis does this to show how much Aslan, like Christ, must love us. Aslan would sacrifice his life permanently, even for an ordinary, sinful human being.”
Re: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/lion/section10.rhtml
Are you saying Spark’s Notes is in error?
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Archarya S rocks! She knows what she’s talking about. It’s great that we have the internet. I meet more people ever year that are awakening to the reality of that Jesus Christ aka Horus Krst aka Hare Krishna aka Mithra is the SUN and not a literal historical personage.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Most of the connections made ie Mithra the glowing light the references to light/Sun are merely conjecture and in no way support the question of wether or not Jesus existed. It does however support a theory that something was usurped by the other ie the Catholic church and its creators usurped what exactly. Whilst the author/Achayra puts forward some compelling ( Mainly through curiosity ) arguments and suppositions as to the veracity of Jesus existence she no where gives evidence through this. Why in the Roman texts of the day are there references to the dealings of Pontius Pilot with Jesus. I say Jesus existed and I also say that Achayra is on to something. Something bigger than the question of Jesus existence.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Dave, all the best to you and your endeavors, thanks for the book review, it was great to view and I’m glad to see this type of open dialog. I will bookmark this page a check it from time to time, I’m glad to see such an enjoyable review from D.M.Murdock.The comments I can make because I have not read the literature mentioned in this blog is that myth and stories of the past may be their best attempts to communicate their feeling and beliefs and we really don’t know how spiritual they may have been, I hope as we grow our eyes are open to the spiritual possibilities ahead of us. Its just so hard to say that with all that is going on. I for one vote for a funner experience ahead for all of us.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Hi Dave -
Thanks for featuring Acharya on your site. I am quite familiar with her work and can vouch for its thoroughness and scholarship, especially, in this book, where she examines the ‘alleged’ secular proofs for an historical Jesus Christ. Thanks again for being a gracious host
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:36 am
After having struggled for years, trying to believe the unbelievable, and then having found the writings of Acharya S. (bless her soul) and finding sites such as this and others, due to the internet, I have finally been able to access the information that I had always hoped was out there somewhere and I now can rest easy in the knowledge that my suspicions were right. In fact, the whole Bible is more ill-contrived than I could ever have imagined. Bless you all. You are doing mnkind a tremendous service and I hope that, finally, we will be led out of fear-based ignorance and age-old myths and superstitions which should have long ago been replaced by knowledge…knowledge, the enemy, and… ultimately, the death-knell of religion.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:39 am
Nice case from Acharya S, thanks for posting it on HJ!
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:01 am
Well, as far as i can see, Jesus is a myth. He may have existed, 2000 or so years ago there may have been a man called Jesus who preached all his ideas to people. We will probably never know for sure the truth of the matter.
This topic does however bring a whole new question to the table. ‘Is Christianity real?’ It is by far the most widely accepted religion in the world, but as far as i can see, its just not true. Along with all the other religions on this planet, i see it just as a way to controll the masses, tell them what is good and bad and what they must do. And help quench the human mind of its fear of death of course.
I personaly hate the idea of all religion and think it traps our mind to such a great extent. Imagine, if it were fact, that one day, we just die. Stop existing. Imagine if one day who we are, all our memories, all our thoughts, our future. It all just ends. We cease to exist. What if, god forbid, one day we just die? If this were true, if we were able to accept this as a reality in our mind, do you think that would be a bad thing? we would just become a depressive mess? I dont think so. it think it would make us brilliant. For sure, adjusting to this new fact after living in our false sence of security we would be afraid for a while, but after some time pased, we adjusted to our new reality, dont you think this life would become so much more? With the realisation that one day we were gonna die, do you think we would be happy wasting this life? Do you think we would be happy just watching the time just pass rite out the window? Do you think we would be happy with all the atrocities that go on in our messed up human world? Do you think that maybe, we would be able to have the get up and go to actualy make something worthwhile out of this life?
I dont know, it doesnt matter, none of what i just said will probably make sence. Oh well, i tried, just spoke from the hear and said what i truley believe. Doesnt matter though. Have fun every1
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:47 am
http://www.biblio.com/authors/285/CS_Lewis_Biography.html
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:22 am
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/religion/cs_lewis_final_letters.html
By the way the lion did know he would die.
“But what does it all mean?” asked Susan when they were somewhat calmer. - “It means,” said Aslan, “that though the Witch knew the Deep Magic, there is a magic deeper still which she did not know. Her knowledge goes back only to the dawn of Time. But if she could have looked a little further back, into the stillness and the darkness before Time dawned, she would have read there a different incantation. She would have known that when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor’s stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards.” (ch. 15 of “The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe”)
Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bares his teeth, winter meets its death,
And when he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:39 am
Christianity is a religion of thieves. It moves into cultures and robs them of their origin by assimilation. The old people of Europe knew who they were and where they came from. Christianity conformed the religion by masking the beliefs, cultural holiday etc over the beliefs of the so called “pagans” and people of the “occult”. People like C.S. Lewis knew their origin, but had to mask it and conform it around Christianity to keep it alive. If he wanted to survive in the society he lived in he had to “be” Christian. For the most part he did believe. But he never forgot where he came from.
The old people were robbed of their language, culture and spiritual beliefs. It is something Christianity has done all over the world.
May 23rd, 2008 at 5:34 am
Thankyou very much for putting this work of Acharya’s on your website. She’s terrific and so are you for doing so! Much appreciation. I enjoyed it very much.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:24 am
Execellent Interview! Have recently purchased three of Ms. Murdock’s books; am more than half-way through “The Christ Conspiracy”, will next read “Suns of God”; and then “Who Was Jesus”! Since for decades I have been researching the subject matter, I am most familiar with the sources used by Ms. Murdock and am most impressed with her style of wrighting — so Pleased to have found her Web-Site!
Sincerely,
Ron Malloy
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:25 am
Folks, Acharya’s work is very much based on the works of Manly Hall and the Theosophical Society. Nothing new under the sun.
Hopefully, the is the end of that horrible vision of God created by the Jews, Christians and Islam.
I believe the true God is so much bigger then these three horrible perspectives.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:29 am
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy listening to Acharya, however the academic background of this is very old and complex.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:17 am
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is nothing more than gruesome paganism.
This is what you get when you censor and suppress the Truth about the Doctrine of “resurrection” and that Jesus had to be eliminated because he contradicted the lies of the Pharisees that the “resurrection” is a physical raising of a dead body from the grave. Thus, Matthew 27:52 should be understood as a metaphorical description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives in opposition to the Pharisaic interpretation of Paul.
Michael Cecil
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:25 am
Achanya is part of the problem. She is in the same camp as the producers of Zietgiest. Check out who they are. Do the research and you will find they are zionist shills doing the work of “The Protocals of the Elders of Zion”. This is another production using the 80/20 methods. 80% hard-hitting truth which leads one to believe the 20% deception. A classic “protocal” method. The producers are zionist and want to lead all away from Christianity. I for one will not listen to a zionist about spiritual matters. The parts about banking/911 etc. are true, but don’t be mislead.
Peace to men of good will
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:38 am
To say that jesus didnt exist because ancient mythologies also had a dying rising god,is a very old story for instance the Martydom of Man by Winwood Reade, this is from the german school who are basically all jews.They are still denying him after two thousand years……what all these theories have as their weakness, is that they ignore his teachings, which are so sublime, and congruent with his actions, that it is no wonder he has had such an impact on humanity. For materialists and ’scientism’ that demands physical proof, while ignoring that the crime scene has been deliberately obliterated, by usurpers, would be better advised to look at their own myths and decaying heterodox orthodoxies then continue projecting their own maya onto the truth
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:40 am
Clearly, her efforts are directed at, specifically, the power structure of Christianity; the attempt being to destroy it completely without any effort to put anything in its place.
And, just as clearly, she demonstrates NO understanding of the Doctrine that Jesus taught, as conveyed in much greater detail in the Nag Hammadi Codices and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
In addition, she has become the ‘darling’ of the alternative Internet media, with links to her writings being published several times on rense.com
On the other hand, my book, entitled “Jesus and the ‘Resurrection’–the Secret Teaching (Including) Meditations on a Science of Consciousness” (September, 2007) has been completely ignored by the media because it focuses on the ONE fundamental Doctrinal error of not only Christianity, but also Judaism and Islam: the disinterpretation of the Doctrine of “resurrection”.
The masses are uninterested in Doctrine because it would *seriously* threaten the power structure of the secular- and Pharisee-Christian-Zionists.
To become a “best-seller”, you must engage only in superficial “controversy”.
Michael Cecil
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:04 am
God used His prophets to write the bible and He has not changed His ways today. He is speaking through many prophets today and has not changed His tune about the need for people to live honourably and righteously. Anyone who knocks the bible has not spent enough time taking an honest and even look at what it’s purpose is. God did not create religion, man did. People created religion and drove God out. Jesus promised that those who would believe upon Him would do greater works. The visions and dreams are on the increase for many people and I can tell you from what I have dreamed, those works are going to be awesome. People are going to regret very deeply they ignored the teachings of Jesus. Ego’s are a dime a dozen these days, and humility is at a premium.
www.hismailroom.com
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:17 am
Hi David -
Thanks so much for this space. I appreciate it very much.
“Folks, Acharya’s work is very much based on the works of Manly Hall and the Theosophical Society. Nothing new under the sun.”
This statement is completely false. I do not use Manly Hall’s work at all in any of my books. Nor do I quote any member of the Theosophical Society to any extent.
I would concur, however, that there is nothing new under the SUN.
“Achanya is part of the problem. She is in the same camp as the producers of Zietgiest. Check out who they are. Do the research and you will find they are zionist shills doing the work of ‘The Protocals of the Elders of Zion.’”
The “producers” of Zeitgeist happen to be one young individual who studied the subject using a variety of sources. He is not Jewish to my knowledge. The perspective that “the Zionists” (codeword for “the Jews”) are omnipotently in control of everything, yet didn’t create Christianity, which basically dictates that God is a Jew, appears to be contradictory and illogical.
Exposing frauds and hoaxes perpetrated against humanity does not render someone “part of the problem.”
“And, just as clearly, she demonstrates NO understanding of the Doctrine that Jesus taught, as conveyed in much greater detail in the Nag Hammadi Codices and the Dead Sea Scrolls.”
I submit that you do not know my work at - and this is a typical ad hom. Pastor David Bruce is in a very good position to know whether or not I understand “the Doctrine that Jesus taught,” whereas you, having not read my work, are not. The Dead Sea scrolls have nothing to do with Jesus, other than that those who composed them surely had a hand in creating Christianity - without any historical founder. The Nag Hammadi texts demonstrate a palpably FICTIONAL character called “Jesus Christ,” as do the canonical gospels themselves.
Calumny is cheap.
Thanks again, David. You are a brave and gracious soul.
D.M. Murdock aka Acharya S
Author, “The Christ Conspiracy,” “Suns of God,” “Who Was Jesus?” and “Christ in Egypt”
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Acharya,
Sure I know your work.
You do not understand either the Doctrine of “resurrection” or its implications with regards to either the Holocaust or the current conflict over Jerusalem. (You do not understand, for example, that Mohammed was Elijah and John the Baptist ‘raised from the dead’–the ignorance of which contributes significantly to the Pharisee-Zionist hoax of the ‘war on terror’ as well as the rabid efforts to demonize Iran.)
I focused on the statement in your book *ridiculing* Matthew 27:52 as something that had, apparently, occurred within the space-time reality. I laughed out loud when I read your assessment of those passages.(I deal with this extensively in my book; which, for obvious reasons, will never receive as much publicity as your book.)
You have swallowed the standard Pharisee-Christian-Zionist propaganda that the Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing to do with Jesus. I also refute this in my book, written after more than 30 years of research, by demonstrating that Jesus is the most probable author of 1QH…
Which you could not understand because you have no knowledge about the Doctrine of “resurrection”.
And the only reason you can conclude that the statements of Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas are about a fictional Jesus is, once again, because you have no knowledge of the implications of the Doctrine of “resurrection” upon the understanding of the origin and structure of human consciousness, as I explain in my essay “Meditations on a Science of Consciousness” on my web page.
Michael Cecil
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:49 am
Acharya,
Oh, by the way, when *I* use the word “Zionists”, it is emphatically NOT a codeword for “the Jews”. (Jews who adhere rigidly to the Torah and the Doctrines conveyed by the prophets CANNOT be Zionists because Zionism is idolatry.)
It is a codeword for Pharisee-rabbis, Pharisee-Christians, and even Pharisee-Muslims…
Which, of course, you would not understand because you do not understand the Doctrine of “resurrection”.
Nor did the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls have a role in the creating of Christianity. The writers of 1QH and 1QM, for example, were opposed to the doctrines of the Pharisees.
Michael Cecil
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Christ need not be the Romantic myth he has been made out to be, for the PsyOps purposes of destroying the potential power of his teachings.
The fact that this rather simple and harmless human being has been converted into a terrifying wall hanging, that is used by a fake church which utters all forms of spiritual horrors along with its promises of salvation at the right price, invariably involving hypocrisy and usury, does not certify the impossibility that, at one time or another, a simple and loving human being may have once walked from village to village, as he is reported to have done, and been on his own account a very good street organizer, which the principalities of fake power feared.
Is it impossible that the person we call “Christ” was most effective as a street organizer? If so, then as he did his organizing on the street corners of the world, did he not seek to uplift and organize the entirety of mankind, on principles of human reason and compassion, using classical methods of metaphor and paradox?
Take out all the smoke and mirror tricks which the plump and pedophile priests and the wirey, cruel and usurious “laity” of the “Church” has sadly impressed upon him, as if by magic, to make us “mere humans” believe we so spiritually impotent that we had better dare not, to go out into the streets and organize just as he did … and what you have left is a very nice (and powerful) story, of how a single human being, loving truth and fearing of nothing, can act utterly alone in this world, and with nothing other than the naked force of his own good intentions, expressed through reason and compassion change God’s Universe, and make it a better place for his children? Were not his methods of metaphor and paradox, not prescribed onto all of our souls, as a reflection of our Creator?
(a small but not unrelated aside: rising populations of human beings, who by reason and compassion, and self-conscious intent, are on the verge of freeing themselves from the demonic forces of Marxism, otherwise knows as Wall Street capitalism — we are on the verge of organizing mankind to INCREASE the ecological potential and diversity of both our local areas, in harmonic relation to a simultaneous increase in ecological diversity and potential for the planet as a whole. To save the planet (even to reduce the so-called “global warming problem” of Al Gore — arghh!), then INCREASE the human population. By forces of reason and compassion prescribed in us, our increase will decrease the authority of demonic forces, who are increasingly proving their inability to keep their grip. It’s not accidental that demonic authorities (really human beings whose brains never developed past the reptilian phase of development), who pretend to be in control of us, want to decrease our population — increases in human populations result in increases in the power of freedom, as more and more individuals, acting seemingly alone, come forward start to organize mankind on principles of reason and compassion, as is the beautiful and well organized soul of Archarya S.)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
What flavor is your dream? That’s what it all comes down too…
Murdock says that the evidence for the real existence of Jesus is non existent… Well, the same can be said of Buddha, Mohammad or even Moses…
No one knows what any of them look like… It’s all imagination gone wild…
Religions and politcal movements are all the same as they require followers and beilvers to support the Priests…
FREE YOUR MIND!
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I’ve sent two people a picture of how Jesus/Yeshua Ben David appeared to me in the sky in 1963. In the mid 90’s when I first had access to a computer I read about Wovoka/Wovoca at www.wovoca.com who said Jesus had appeared to him. Wovoka would later start the Ghost Dance.
I have had a a lot of fun with Atheists on the Net who think I learned about Jesus from the white folk came to Turtle Island & then later turned Turtle Island into America. I told the Atheists there are stories from within Tribes that Jesus lived with them & taught them long before the white folk began to arrive in Turtle Island.
I myself do not belong to any religion. Jesus actually taught his Father’s Spiritual Kingdom, not religion. Man of himself just turned Jesus back into religion & in most cases used his name to manipulate people. I do not belong to any political party. Mix politics with religion & you pretty much have the same political religious Pharisees of Jesus’s time that hated Jesus.
All that is happening upon the earth now lines up with the prophecies of the Israelites, the Native Tribes of Turtle Island, & the prophecies of many other peoples.
As Jesus said his Kingdom is not of this world no matter how the leaders of Nation have used his name to try and brand their Nation or religions have tried to brand their name with his name like car companies brand their names with their cars & trucks. More often than not they have used his name to perpetrate what is their own greedy worldly ambitions upon other people upon the earth which is what taking God’s name in vain really means.
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
The TRUTH(100% unadulterated) is non-existent today. Christianity(enlightened one) has been around a lot longer than 2000 years ago. In Acts it said the disciples were called that. This means that others called them that instead of them calling themselves that. This is why Bush, etc can call themselves Christians and mean it. It is because they know the real meaning which has to do with the worship of Lucyfer(the light bearer). Jesus is a made up name of the Catholic church. It came from Iesous(a minor Greek god) that they crucify every time they have mass. Why would 2 Hebrew parents name their son after a minor Greek god. Both the “Jews” and “Palestinians” are a made up people. The problem today is the descendants of Esau, Ismael, Dan, Canaanites, Hittites, and other pagan/banking nations that Esau married into and their lackys the Khazars. Both of the “east” and “west is controlled by the Zionists(Esau,etc.). The “Jews”, “Palestinians”, Arabs, the “east”, “west”, etc. fight each other while the elite stay clean. The term “god” is only a title instead of a name. It would be the same as calling someone Pres, Chairman, king,etc. If you spell god backwards you get dog, which is the dog star sirius, which is Lucyfer. The masses have different definitions for the various terms and biases which will probably keep the masses from ever winning. The only hope is that the elite fail(which they seem to be about to do) or we have a benevolent entity with about the same power of Lucyfer. Right now this entity seems to be asleep or dead.
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I am pleased that people are asking questions, in order that the truth might be known. I have a different view of christianity and the corruption that has and continues to take place. What if it was possible for there to be a human body created that was perfectly balanced; symmetrical in everyway. All of the chemical compounds where arranged in such a way that the body was free of all sickness and disease. The mind developed to the greatest degree. What would such a person be capable of? We all know that someone that is ill can harbor disease and spread that disease to others. Could some one so pure not share their health with others that they might be well? The Jewish people (the origins of christianity as I see it) were given strict laws as to how a body should be fed, and the moral laws that should be followed. In the book of Daniel it is written how disciplined Daniel had to be in order to “see” God. Might I suggest that the reason so few are able to experience this state, is because their bodies and minds are too polluted. I can tell you from experience that although people might ask “why is this happening to me?” When they are told that their pain and suffering is self inflicted, they lash out at the messenger. After Jesus healed the sick, he told them “Go off and sin no more, or else a worst fate might befall you.” As for the comment of the poor being amongst us, he gave the parable of the talents which speaks of those that use what there are given wisely and those that do not. Throwing money at the poor will not stop them from spending more than they save. There are many stories of lottery winners that blow it all. What we have earned is ours to keep, and that which we have not will be taken from us. I am speaking of our mental at spiritual abilities, not material possessions.
Cellular degeneration takes place when the cells are not provided with the chemicals that they need to sustain their function, or when the waste products build up within the cell. With each generation the deterioration can continue until you have a society full of people that are weak of mind and body. Thus we have society today. Try to change the world all at once, it is impossible. Reach out to a group of disciplined people that will do the right thing no matter how much they are hated or persecuted for it. That is what I would do if I was going to invest my energy into improving the world. Lead by the example that you set, and if you are genuine others will be drawn to you. Do it for self aggrandizement, and you will destroy yourself and those that follow you.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Bump this to the top
http://www.matthewdelooze.co.uk/news.php?readmore=244
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Just study how the original Bible was put together and you will have a hard time jusifying the story of Christ as the carnival barking preachers portray on television.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
What people want to believe always clouds the truth.
One thing that cannot be denied is that virtually everything that Christians believe about Jesus was decided upon by the Councils of the Catholic Church. Little came from tradition and nothing came from history. Early (2nd, 3rd, & 4th century) Christian writers searched the historical records, such as Josephus, and found nothing being said about this “miracle worker” in Judea during Pilate’s time. The earliest Christian writings (referred to as “Q”) was nothing but a series of ethical sayings not attached to anyone in particular. It wasn’t until after the Gospel of Thomas (c. 65 CE) that these sayings became attached to a particular person. There are entirely too many Pagan references in the Gospels and Epistles to conclude that the Jesus of the Gospels did not exist and is a product of mythological creation. To quote Dr. Sandra Scham professor os biblical archeology, “Despite all of the much-touted and soon forgotten ’stupendous’ finds, the historical Jesus and his disciples remain elusive to scholars: The archeological evidence for Jesus’s life just isn’t there.”
I may suggest a little book, “The Gospel Truth: The Heresy of History.” It is a pretty good reference of already accepted historical facts.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Religion is a difficult topic. Yes the Bible is true, God, Jesus, holy and rebellious angels exist. For example Jesus said “no man has ascended into Heaven…”John3:13; yet most Christians think they are going to Heaven. What are god beings: they can be thought of as spirit-energy-light beings, E=MC2. This is about as good as we can guess.
Once in college an enraged angel entered my dorm room. I had a habit of singing religious songs in the shower. The encounter lasted about 15 seconds, I could not interact. These beings exist. Remember Jesus is returning to Earth.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Marko51 and Ogmios you have both made statements as if of fact which are so inaccurate they bear correcting.
Ogmios you say that records exist of Pontius Pilate having dealt with Jesus of Nazareth. This is to the best of my knowledge not true. A second hand reference to this fact exists in the writings of a Jewish General who was not much later historically, though removed by a few generations in time. These references are considered by all scholars, even Christian scholars to be forgeries and the particular forger is known. There is I do not believe any actual historical reference which exists from the time and which supports the Christ narrative and many facts actually strongly suggest it was not actual.
The town of Bethlehem was a few mud huts and nothing like the size city it is described as in the bible for example and none of the events described there could have happened at that time.
Marko you state that there is no more evidence for the existence of Mohammad or Buddha and in this you too would be wrong. Mohammad is a very solid and 100% verifiable historical figure. Buddhism as such renders the entire concept of whether or not the Buddha walked as the stories say; moot. You don’t get to go there. If you knew anything about Buddhism you’d understand that and also why I am grinning indulgently at the thought you’d raise it. The Buddha nature is, that is all we need to know. The way I understand it the doctrine of Buddhism doesn’t rely on the physical incarnation of Buddha for its message. Indeed it is more relevant to question your own physical existence than worry about another’s.
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
A funny thing happened on the way to heaven, I had to stop by here and leave a reply to all the utter ignorance and hypocracy I just read! First of all, if there was “No” Jesus or “God”, why discuss it? Why not just let us ole dumb Jesus/God-fearing Christain idiots continue following their false doctrines and heroes from the bible of long ago? Some of you believe that we evolved due to the “Big Bang” theory or from apes, so, if we did, why are we not the ones in the zoos and all the monkeys paying admission to see us and throw us a banana or something? If we are the product of the big bang, then why do we need to mate our species male and female instead of being able to just go out and have intercourse with the nearest rock to reproduce? Men who have fought against God have spent their entire lives in vein attempting to eradicate this fact that God is real, and that Jesus was indeed the son of God. It never ceases to amaze me how people allow hollywood juggernauts who make movies for our entertainment to deceive them with their “alleged” facts that Jesus is a myth or never existed at all. That’s the devil’s job, to make all he can stop believing in the Messiah, for he knows his time is so short. If Jesus, God, and the bible are all farces, then explain to me just how that the only book in the world written back in the day Jesus walked the earth, shows in great detail exactly what’s happening today, and what’s gonna happen in our future? No other book in recorded history can make this claim, and it those who are “non-believers” that don’t understand what they are even reading when they read the bible because they read it like just another book. God plainly states that the ignorant will not understand what they read for they are still reapers of the flesh! I can go on and on here with absolutely multitudes of examples, scriptures, and many other teachings that curl all yall’s toes, but all I will say is I just hope that you folks will stop allowing the devil to keep you hidden in his trance and get saved and give your hearts to the lord! Hey, try Jesus for a while, and if ya don’t like him, your ole buddy the devil will always take you back@!
May 23rd, 2008 at 5:25 pm
For this world’s wisdom is foolishness(absurdity and stupidity)with God, for It is written, He lays hold of the wise in their{own}craftiness;{Job 5:13}… 1 Corinthians 3:19
Amplified Bible by the Lockman Foundation.
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Most normal humans who are not spiritually advanced, such as Acharya S., limit their reality to what can be perceived by the five senses through the instrument of the mind. Their consciousness is limited to the body.
Advanced souls such as Jesus, Krisha, Buddha, Ramakrishna, Ananda Moyi Ma, Ammachi, (some of whom we know are not myths!) have expanded their consciousness beyond the body, and are one with Omnipresence. Read THE HOLY SCIENCE by Swami Sri Yukteswar.
Acharya S. has not explored all the realms above the gross physical creation, and thus is not qualified. From a spiritual standpoint, it is very low level “scholarship.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:31 pm
You don’t know Acharya’s spiritual state or whether or not she “has explored all the realms above a gross physical creation.” Your comments are nothing but stupid insults.
You can’t insult ME into believing in silly fairytales, sleazy salesman - your lack of integrity is obvious. In fact, your comments display a very poor understanding of reality.
It takes a VERY low mind and barbaric ego to try to insult people into believing in invisible gods in the sky - in fact, that’s just caveman junk.
Jesus is a fictional character, so he certainly isn’t very advanced. You’re hallucinating, not evolved.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
And now it’s time for the discussion to tone down a bit… All perspectives are welcome here, if they are offered in a true spirit of dialogue.
And by all means, if anyone perceives an insult, please don’t respond in like manner. Elevate the level of discussion… don’t sink to a lower level.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:37 pm
You people are just wasting your time. It’s the same fight that will never be won by either side.
Abridged by Moderator.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
C. S. Lewis was wrong when he said: “And nothing else in all literature was just like this.” Apparently he never read about Horus who, according to ancient Egyptian statues and writings, was worshipped as a messiah-god thousands of years before Jesus. Some say that the story of Jesus was copied after Horus.
There are some remarkable parallels between Jesus and Horus. Among them: both were said to have been born to virgins around December 25, their mothers and foster fathers had similar names, both of their foster fathers were said to be of royal descent, their births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds and later by three “wise” men. Further, each had a lapse in life history between the ages of 12 and 30, both were baptized at the age of 30 and both of their baptizers were later beheaded. Both walked on water, healed the sick, and raised someone from the dead (a transmutation of the name of the one Horus raised was el-Azarus). Both gave “sermons on the mount” and died by crucifixion between two thieves.
Further, although Horus was mentioned by writers in his time, Jesus was never mentioned by contemporary writers. Here’s an interesting quote from http://truthbeknown.com/cutner.htm
“It has always mystified believers and assorted other historicizers that the story of Jesus Christ appears in no contemporary historical record. Of at least 40 writers of the first several decades of the Christian era, including philosophers and historians, not one mentions Christ, Christians or Christianity. With such a suspicious development concerning a man who ’supposedly shook up the world’ apologists have been forced to resort to a few pitiful and inadequate “references” in non-Christian sources dating to decades later.”
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
A few questions for the anti-Jesus folks
(because that’s what you are).
Ask yourself,objectively,if you can:
—What drives me to try and prove that Jesus is myth,not
the reality as described in the Gospels.Why do I want there
to not be a Jesus ?
—Why am I unable to differentiate between religions and
individuals who(loudly)CALL themselves christians,and those
who(quietly)seek to emulate Jesus,in their daily deeds,
rather than in empty words ? After all, the satanist(who
is so defined by his murderous deeds)in the White House,
considers himself a Christian !
—Why do I dismiss as ancient wishful delusion,spiritual
realities that I have never personally EXPERIENCED.
As Jimi H. once said,”But first,are you…”
Perhaps you are,uh,challenged in your ability to perceive
these higher realities ?
—If the past 2,000 years were so terrible since the
entrance of the Christos (and in many ways they certainly
were),why am I unable to imagine what the past 2,000 years
would have been like WITHOUT the Gift and the influence
of the Christ.Is it possible that His intervention in
history at that time was necessary to save man(and woman)kind from the proverbial “fate worse than Death” ?
—Since obviously the majority of people on the earth
at any given time will chose NOT to be Christians,why am
I unwilling to consider that reincarnation (one of the many
meanings of “Ye must be born again”,as Jesus spoke on many
levels)gives ALL the opportunity to eventually follow Him
and His Path,however many millienea the individual soul may
search for their way back to God ?
—And why am I so blind so as not to see there is no such
thing as innocence in this world.If you were here before,
chances are real good you screwed up at least once in awhile.And if you caused the suffering or death of a child
then, is there no poetic justice in returning as a child
destined to reap what you have sown (”Be not deceived,God
is not mocked.As you have sown…”)In other words, you can
run, but you can’t hide.Karma.
—Jesus ain’t rocket science,kids.We all decide regarding
these matters, pro or con.And since we have many lifetimes
to make the call…relax.Someday you will see the Light.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
David Bruce is a Jew, surprise surprise!
Good luck convincing 3 billion people of your tin foil hat conspiracies. LOL!
May 24th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Jesus, the Christian version is a myth. I believe there was kind of a rebel Hebrew philosopher named Jesus married to a former prostitue named Mary Magdala whom was put to death around 32 AD. I believe this is so because they found his family tomb and his bones a few years ago in Jerusalem.
However, I don’t believe the Marvel Comics version that most Christians hold of a Jesus Christ: Son of Man (kind of like James Bond: 007)that died on the cross, went to Hell, kicked another mythical creature named Satan’s behind, came back to life, and went up to Heaven 40 days later, yet is going to return out of the eastern sky riding a Spectral Harley-Davidson and bringing a host of avenging angels with him, like some kind of Gandalf or King Arthur, to come and save what is left of the West when it looks like all will be lost for Jews and those that converted to Christianity during the Tribulation at the penultimate moment of the last battle of World War III.
I believe there is more evidence for the existence of visitations during the last fifty years of extra-terrestrial UFO’s than for the believe in the version of Jesus that I describe in the second paragraph.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Michael Cecil, reading some of your comments, and the big thing that sticks out to me is that since the whole Resuurection thing was either a hoax or ma myth and nothing more than either, then there is no value to anything talking about a ressurection, so it doesn’t matter if it is valued or devalued since it was never real. What is real is that Jesus’ bones are in a coffin in Jersalem and the old crumbly thingsit don’t appear to have ever been resurrected and the fact that the dude didn’t appear out of the Eastern Sky on his Force- Powered motorcycle named Silver bringing his angels with him at the non-existent battle of Armageddon on either 1-1-2000 or even on 9-11-2001.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. - Jesus Christ, Matthew 23:24
Why do you fight so hard against faith in Jesus? Why also have you so long persisted, in relying upon the same tired old arguments and pretense at scholarship, with boastful claims of your superior spiritual knowledge?
We have seen all of this before.
Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard, Swami Muktenanda(sp?), Sri Chinmoy, Sai Baba, Bubba Free John, Sri Rajaneesh and countless other charlatans also come to mind, who made much money selling books, “blessed trinkets”, bad vegetarian chow and a whole lot of brainless ass.
So many secret SubGovernement Luciferian assets and shills of every stripe and persuasion, go about talking trash against The KING Of Kings, and so let me tell you, by now it is boring, as all hell.
We have watched them all come and go. From so called christian, Anti-Christ Neocon Zionists like Pat Robertson, not to mention a long string of very transparent fascist Popes, to Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhist political leaders seeking to reestablish their country club of feudal lordship, they all alike, try in vain, to dethrone Christ The King. Never happens. Forget about it.
Christ’s blessed elect, know far better, and you but fool other fools, and yourselves, as usual.
Yawn …. borING!
http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/institutional_analysis/thefourthreich172250.html
May 24th, 2008 at 9:44 am
“Why do you fight so hard against faith in Jesus?”
Because there’s nothin there except for a few old bones.
“Why also have you so long persisted, in relying upon the same tired old arguments and pretense at scholarship,with boastful claims of your superior spiritual knowledge?”
These old spectres and, much more importantly, the people that follow them think they’re so superior to others due to their belief in non-existent spectres that they can judge how others choose to live their lives.
Abridged by moderator.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Baphomet
Those dandy bad examples, whom you cited, are all your guys not ours.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Inasmuch as the theologians at Notre Dame have been ignoring my challenge to debate them for more than 30 years, and the members of the Jesus Seminar have been ignoring my challenge to debate them for almost 22 years, I suggest that, in the spirit of dialogue, Acharya debate me on the Teaching of Jesus concerning the Doctrine of “resurrection”.
She can use the arguments she presents in her writings (which seem to be based upon a false understanding or ignorance of the Doctrine of “resurrection”), and I would explain in more detail the arguments already conveyed in my book:
http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=39997
Certainly, this is a reasonable suggestion to anyone seriously interested in determining the Truth of the matter.
Michael Cecil
May 24th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I quote you now since your last post, which I replied to in post #51, has disappeared.
————————————
Baph
May 24th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Michael Cecil, reading some of your comments, and the big thing that sticks out to me is that since the whole Resuurection thing was either a hoax or ma myth and nothing more than either, then there is no value to anything talking about a ressurection, so it doesn’t matter if it is valued or devalued since it was never real. What is real is that Jesus’ bones are in a coffin in Jersalem and the old crumbly thingsit don’t appear to have ever been resurrected and the fact that the dude didn’t appear out of the Eastern Sky on his Force- Powered motorcycle named Silver bringing his angels with him at the non-existent battle of Armageddon on either 1-1-2000 or even on 9-11-2001.
——————————-
The inscribed text on the ossuary, which you cited above, was proved conclusively to be a forgery.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
“The inscribed text on the ossuary, which you cited above, was proved conclusively to be a forgery.”
You mean there aren’t even any old bones there? Then I guess what Archarya said in The Christ Conspiracy was true, and Jesus is every bit as mythical / fictional as old Gandalf then, and he’s certainly less real than the fragmentary evidence that we have for Arthur or Beowulf makes them out to be.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
NONSENSE. READ SITCHIN.
May 24th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I saw this and I felt that I needed to share some thoughts on the subject of Jesus. Not long ago I saw some shows on the History Channel about the life of Jesus and about his crucifixion. I don’t think that Jesus never existed. But I noticed that there seems to be proof in the bible that Jesus never full died on the cross, when you take certain historical and medical facts into consideration. To start there has been controversy over what kind of cross he was nailed to. If it was a t shaped cross or a latin more commonly known cross. There is one piece of evidence that it was a Latin cross because if it was a t cross there would not be any piece of wood over his head with the inscription INRI , an anagram for Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews. Also if he was tied to the cross beam and made to carry it, as was the custom, he would not have been helped to carry it after falling the third time. He recieved less then 40 lashes because that is the law but the exact number is not revealed.My sense is that since he had to have been carrying the larger latin cross that the scourging was not as severe as is commonly hyped.It is possible that the soldiers were also bribed to not scourge him that severely. The songe that was given for him to suck on when he was thirsty was laced with either mandrake root or opium as it was a common practice to offer it to people crucified to relieve their suffering with opiates and opiate analogs. The two most revealing facts of why Jesus didn’t die on the cross are, one the medical facts as to how someone dies by crucifixion. which is to say by asphixiation. Two that just ” before he gave up the ghost”, he screamed ,” Father why has’t thou forsaken me. Into your hands I commend my spirit”. A suffocating man who is on the verge choking to death would not be able to speak. The fact that he not only spoke but screamed ment that he was not desd. One of the side effects of crucifixion is fluid build up in the lungs causing pleuresy or water in the lungs. The bible states that Jesus had a spear thrusted by a roman into his side, not his lungs or heart, but his side. Also that the side had spewed forh clear liquid and blood. This brings us to the truth which is that, if the lance pierced his side, given that he most likely had developed pleurasy as a consequence of being on the cross,it would have drained the liquid build up, as it appears to have done, and allowed him to breath. He was on the cross only for a few hours, when it usually took days to kill a man. He was later wrapped in about a hundred pounds of Myrrh and aloe, which are healing and anti-septic. It would be almost as if he were wrapped up in Neo-sporin. So Jesus apparently never died. That he died and resurrected is the myth.It wasn’t so much that he was resurrected as he was resusitated and brought back to health.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Natasha,
Perhaps my comments are too cryptic, in an effort to be as brief as possible while focusing exclusively on Doctrine…
But I am utterly amazed at how you have understood my comments. (Perhaps you should check my web sites and the blurb about my book before attempting to draw your conclusions.)
The resurrection of Jesus is such a complicated issue that I do not even attempt to discuss it in a venue such as this.
Far from being unimportant, however, the misinterpretation of the *Doctrine* of “resurrection” by the Pharisees was the proximate cause of the crucifixion; it was the reason that tens of thousands of Albigensians were slaughtered by the Pharisee-Roman church; it establishes the theological foundation of Naziism, Zionism and the pathological theology of al-Qaeda; and, as such, it is pushing civilization towards Armageddon.
And no one cares because this doctrine enables the religious ‘authorities’ to collect millions of dollars each year from their deluded followers.
The reason I have challenged the theologians at Notre Dame and the Jesus Seminar an Acharya to a debate on the Doctrine of “resurrection” is in an effort to throw a monkey-wrench into this mechanism.
I DOUBT that I will succeed.
Michael Cecil
May 24th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
MYTH POINTS TO JESUS’ TRUTH
Everyone seems to be missing the point. There is something very profound about myth. It is a way of getting at the basics needs, problems and aspirations that we all share. Ultimately it is not important what parts of the Judeo/Christian bible are “true” as defined by history or currently accepted science. If science and history are our only guides we are all doomed. Scientific thinking, by definition, is always in process. And history, as it is often noted, is written by the victors, not the losers.
Myth is a way of getting at truth that helps us and can literally change us. C. S. Lewis’ idea of Jesus being the “true myth” is exactly right. Stories can be powerful. Stories can transform us in ways that nothing else can.
THE INCARNATION
The idea of Jesus being “God made flesh” is powerful because it means that God dwells with us and enters into human struggle. This is power and life changing. The historical debate over the two genealogies of Jesus (Matthew vs Luke) is interesting, but says nothing of about the “God who is with us.” Summarily, the FACT that there are other so-called virgin births (stories of the gods with us) only underscores the central truth that all such myth points to: We are not alone, God cares.
THE TEACHINGS
The great Sermon of the Mount as we have it in the Gospel of Matthew contains great words to live by. “Turn the other cheek (non-violence)”, “Love your neighbor (put others first)”, “refrain from divorce (commitments are to be honored)”, “Love your enemy (relationship over division)” and all the other incredible life affirming truth expressed by Jesus in the story as we have it. By the way, the Jewish Hebrew scriptures say the same things, as did Buddha. The FACT that Buddha and the Jews of old said it first does not make such eternal truths less so. To say “I do not have to love my neighbor” because Jesus did not REALLY say that (or Jesus never existed) misses the point all together. Truth is truth no matter what mythological form it takes. In fact, loving our neighbors is pretty central to human survival.
THE CRUCIFIXION AND RESURRECTION
These are the most powerful truths of all. There is redemption, transformation, and new life. This idea of Jesus’ death on a cross followed by a resurrection that defeats death and sin is powerful. It matters little to me that other gods did the same. It all points to the same truth:
1. Regardless of the situation in your life there can be hope (Jesus’ death was not the end).
2. You can experience new life (Jesus triumphed over death).
3. You can experience death to your old life/problems, and experience rebirth into better life realities.
THE CENTRAL MESSAGE OF JESUS
“You must be born again.” And you can be. It is the central truth that all myth points to, and is realized in the message and life of Jesus. There is hope and there is a tomorrow, if you will only believe.
THE PROBLEM WITH ALL HUMAN INSTITUTION
They are comprised of humans and prone to all sorts of mischief. No church institution is without corruption. The New Age movement has its charlatans. No Buddhist Monk is truly pure. Evangelicals and Catholics are riddled with scandal. No “holy” book is without its flaws and critics. Truth is not controlled by any of these groups; rather life-changing-Truth resides in story (myth).
MYTHS ARE PROFOUND.
Humans live by story. The stories in the Hebrew and Christian bibles are time tested and powerful. They are not always scientific or historical; rather they are to be experienced personally in the reality of a changed and redirected life. As Jesus is quoted as saying, “The truth shall set you free.”
May 24th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Acharya,
“This statement is completely false. I do not use Manly Hall’s work at all in any of my books. Nor do I quote any member of the Theosophical Society to any extent.”
I don’t know if you are aware of this, Acharya, but you are incorrect about your own work. As a matter of fact you quote H.P. Blavatsky more than once in your book “The Christ Conspiracy”. On pages 93, 110, 117, 169, 284, you either reference Blavatsky by name or use a direct quote from her work, each time in agreement with her conclusions (though you only use her name next to the quotes on pages 93, 169, and 284). I don’t know if you were aware, but Blavatsky was a founding member of the Theosophical Society. There are other references to other members of the TS throughout that book and others of yours, but I think I’ve sufficiently shown that your assessment of your sources is not totally correct, whether known by you or not.
Good on you for stating that religion has a history of bollocks, as I’m certainly no fan of religion myself, but you should probably have better defenses for the scholarship of your work than claiming you didn’t use some New Age sources that you did, in fact, use. After all, you had no problem placing a jacket quotation from Barbera Walker, well-known as a New Age Feminist, speaking kindly of your work.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
There is nothing wrong with myth. Story telling was (and still is) the main source of knowledge for most people. Myths are ideas that people adopt because they give them pleasure and meaning. They are usually to simplistic to be true. Jesus was a sort of Betty Crocker with all sorts of meaningful material attached.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
If you want to know more about God and the origins of the world and its ultimate destiny, then go and read Sitchin and the Sumerian texts. They are closer to the origin of things without all of the theological **** thrown in by the later Hebrew authors. If you want to know more about the Hebrews and their true history and the lineage that led up to the person that we call Jesus, then go read Gerald Massey’s books.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Whats real? Whats fake? I posted a video of bush senior, I suppose was shapeshifting.At the time there were 2 ‘reptilian” vids on YT-now over 5,000(deep impact there!)-is it real? I am.Then I posted a vid with 100 million yr old human ,reptoid and alien fossils,real? I am.Now I posted pics of orbs with faces in them,real? I am.People crack me up,they wouldnt know real if it kicked them in the ass.Sometimes I want to kick them in the ass,only if being such a very large person gave the opportunity to do so.
May 25th, 2008 at 2:01 am
Never Met G-D
Personally, I have never met G-D, so I cannot say G-D exists.
But I do cling to my frail human notion that some sort of awe-inspiring intelligence beyond human comprehension,
Not only brought this creation about
But loves humankind, whom it put in its creation.
On the other hand, I have met many two legged devils, touting the word of G-D. It’s as if they live, breath,
and hold communion with G-D on a daily basis,
proclaiming G-D’s word on their every breath.
Even, too these words I write, there will be those who will drive the stake of G-D through my heart, proclaiming upon it’s vary last beat, that they have saved, yet another soul for G-D.
I pray, that if there truly is a G-D … that in the fading light of my eyes, it may take mercy upon this poor soul and give me the briefest of glimpse of its TRUTH before my eyes go dark.
I pray, in my last breath, if there is a G-D, that may he redeem these spokesmen of his in like manor, so they too may come to rest before his feet and suffer no more.
Wouldn’t it be ironic, if the way to G-D were through
the two-legged devils who profess to speak in his name.
But who am I to question?
I have never met G-D.
R.A. 2001
May 25th, 2008 at 2:42 am
Well, imo, God is not someone you can meet in human terms. You meet God when you die, when the soul leaves the body. This is when your soul tunes into itself, which is God. I view the bible as a guide to life. It’s not all do or die, or go to hell in a hand basket if you don’t live by it. We create our own hell, as hell and the devil don’t exist. That was implanted into the minds of mankind to instill fear and guilt, and is actually an evil inspired masterpiece. The fact that no energy can either be created nor destroyed directly states that all energy is forever… at least as far as we’re concerned. So then reincarnation is not excluded from the picture. And what about the equal and opposite reactions for every action… yes there is universal balance, without positive and negative, no system could function in our dimension. This is what we call karma. People who live in disregard for life, will definitely have an equalization coming their way. I always say, evil has it too easy. It’s easy to be bad, and that’s why there are so many excuses from people as to why they don’t believe in God… it’s because they don’t want anything or anybody to challenge their way of life. Of coarse that’s fine, because one day they will know the truth anyways. There is no sense in arguing over religion - it’s perfectly rediculous to do so.
As always,
PEACE
May 25th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Oh yeah, just thought of something… The longer you stay positive, the more potential you create; this usually attracts more negative things (problems), but dignity and goodness are always more important than weaknesses. So I’m just theorizing here, but maybe the next higher dimension attainable to the human soul is the true 4-D positive energy only realm. Wouldnt that be nice? No mo’ problems! But nothing is free, everything must be earned. It’s good to have a few lofty goals in life, and I choose this to be one of them.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:45 am
David Bruce,
I would respectfully suggest that it is you who are ‘mything’ the point. (Sorry)
The myth we are dealing with here is a pagan myth; and, as such, it draws its power from the same source that all paganism draws its power: the preservation of the ‘Fallen’ consciousness–the consciousness which was *not* Created “by and in the image of God” (Genesis 1:27).
This is why people prefer such writings as “The Da Vinci Code”, “The Bible Code”, “The Celestine Prophecy” and the writings of Acharya; and such films as Mel Gibson’s (forgot the title). People have spent millions upon millions of dollars for such entertainment.
People want to be entertained by *stories*. They prefer the “mysterious” and “controversy” and something requiring “empathy”. These are all the seductions of the ‘Fallen’ consciousness.
They have no real taste for either Truth or Doctrine. Truth is nothing more than Truth. It is *seldom* entertaining.
But the Teaching of Jesus was *not* about the myth that emerged after his death. Such a myth could easily have been conveyed to the apostles over a period of a few weeks. And it *never* would have constituted any threat to the Jewish priesthood.
On the contrary, Jesus taught that the Pharisees were *wrong*. They were wrong in terms of *Doctrine*, just as the Christian theologians are wrong.
This constituted a threat to their pride, their wealth and their power. So they retaliated.
Any attempt to “mythify” or mystify this conflict is a fundamental distraction from the Truth and an attempt to provide comfort to the ‘Fallen’ consciousness.
But, more importantly, it is a *dangerous* distraction, which has led to conflicts between Jews, Christians and Muslims, as well as the synthetic separation between the monotheistic religions and the Eastern religions.
I agree with your statements about the Buddha, which are also echoed in “Jesus and Buddha–the Parallel Sayings” by Marcus Borg. But neither of you go far enough.
The *source* of those parallelisms is that Jesus also taught the “resurrection” as a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’.
Michael Cecil
May 25th, 2008 at 4:59 am
David Bruce,
By the way, the idea of Jesus being “‘God’ made flesh” is very directly tied to the doctrine of “vicarious atonement”, which is very directly tied to the lies of the Pharisees about the Doctrine of “resurrection”, which is directly tied to the Holocaust.
In other words, the myth of Jesus being ‘God’ is tied very directly to genocide.
This is not merely a trivial matter.
It demonstrates the danger of such a myth, irrespective of how much ‘comfort’ it may provide to the Christians who believe it.
And such Pharisee-Christians as Rod Parsley and John Hagee are employing precisely this same myth to justify a genocidal conflict against Islam.
Do you see what is going on here?
Also, see my website on the science of consciousness.
Michael Cecil
May 25th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Hear this,all ye people;give ear,all ye inhabitants of the world:Both rich and high,low and poor,together.My mouth shall speak wisdom;and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.Unto you,O men,I call,and my voice is to you sons of man.Enter into the rock,and hide thee in the dust,for the fear of the Lord Jesus,and the glory of his majesty.The lofty looks of man shall be humbled,and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord Jesus alone shall be exalted in that day.For the day of the Lord Jesus shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty,and upon every one that is wise in their own conceit,and ye shall be brought low: and in that day shall the myths he shall utterly abolish.And ye shall go into the holes of the rocks,and into the caves of the earth,for fear of the Lord Jesus,and for the glory of his majesty,when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.Selah.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:15 am
The problem is the fact that most people apply belief as if it is fact. There is a huge difference between belief and facts. All one need do is look up the two words and they’ll see the difference. As to whether Jesus is real or not, one need look no further than to the origin of the word Jesus and you’d be looking at Iesus or Zeus. As we know, Zeus is the philandering, homosexual God, who came down off of Mount Olympus to kidnap Ganamedes(the young male adolescent) and take him back to Mount Olympus to be his young male lover. You can read about Zeus in ” The Illiad and Odyssey ” . In addition,If you further research, you’ll see that the resurrection myth goes back even further to ancient Egypt, where the story/myth began thousands of years ago, with Asar (Osiris), Aset (Isis), and Heru
(Horus). There was even a temple built to Isis in Paris, France called The Temple of Isis, which is currently under a Cathedral there (although I can’t remember the name of the Cathedral). Finally, if we look at the Zeitgeist DVD, we have to conclude that all of these myths are tied to some astrological, or astronomical event. Thes are facts. I’ll part with tis quote: ” When a man or woman, who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he or she will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.” I hope those reading these words will quit being mistaken, rather than continue to cease to honest. Peace, Tunjii
May 25th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Tunjii,
Sorry; but your statements are as boring as they are irrelevant to the specific *doctrinal* conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees.
All of these pagan accretions were subsequently included in the story about Jesus in order to make it palatable to a pagan society which simply did not have the intellectual *capacity* to understand the Doctrinal issues involved.
But civilization has progressed in its intellectual development over the past 2000 years…
To the point that, now, this Doctrinal conflict *can* be understood by the masses of people…
Which is why it MUST be censored and suppressed by the media in order to preserve the Christian religious establishment.
Michael Cecil
May 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Michael Cecil,
You write: God made flesh = vicarious atonement = Doctrine of resurrection = the Holocaust. “In other words, the myth of Jesus being ‘God’ is tied very directly to genocide.”
Wow that is amazing spin. Somehow the connections elude me.
I see the Holocaust as being a direct violation of the “love your neighbor” message and the non-violence taught by Jesus, the Jews, and Buddha, etc.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Tunjii,
While I can see how you might think Jesus and Zeus are related terms, they are not. Iesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Yeshua (Joshua). Etymology is much more complicated than you are making it.
Everyone,
It’s amazing how many ways the True Myth has and can be twisted and distorted. Which is exactly what you would expect if C.S. Lewis’s premise is correct. Lewis said that it is incorrect to say the Christianity is 100% true and the “pagan” religions are 100% false. Christianity itself has been distorted–which is why we have so many denominations. But that does not mean the cardinal tenants of Christianity are untrue. And, the truth that is found in mythology is truth even if the particulars have been distorted. That is the whole point of Lewis’s fictional work, ‘Til We Have Faces.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Tunjii, good post, particularly the flawlessly logical quote: ”When a man or woman, who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he or she will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.”
Facts vs. Beliefs. As much fire as it might draw, the very word “belief” implies a substantial or total lack of “facts”. And implies that one be satisfied with the scarcity or absence of facts. Simply because there are millions of Christians who “believe” a certain way means nothing within itself because millions of others believe in Islam, Buddhism, and other belief systems. There are some interesting and well stated opinions on this page. But what about “facts”? Opinions come in endless supply but where is the proof?
Please note that this post is not about questioning the existence of a divine creator but, regarding Jesus, something I recently found disturbing is what scholars and researchers say about the Dead Sea Scrolls. Other than hearsay, and written words (”divinely inspired” or not), and profitably perpetuated lore, there has never been any proof that Jesus did all that is attributed to him or that he even lived at all. None. Those who refute that are herein asked to provide proof. Actually physical proof and not just say “it’s in the bible” because, sorry, anyone can write anything.
My whole life I always believed in the man named Jesus actually having lived and done all that was said of him. But a few years ago I began wondering why there were no artifacts about him. Not one. In the time he is said to have lived there were plenty of artisans around. So WHY is there not one single representation of him in some art form? No statue, no portrait, no sketch, not even a cave drawing. Nothing. Yet also from that time period there’s artwork of everything under the sun, right down to birds, frogs, and even insects. One would think that a “messiah”, miracle healer, and “light of the world” would’ve drawn enough attention to merit art forms about him. But there is none, zero, whereas there is plenty regarding leaders of other religions. So, we actually have no good idea what he looked like. Curious.
Nonetheless, ever since I heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls I just naturally assumed with certainty that Jesus’ existence was confirmed in them. Here’s a brief background about the DSS: they’re detailed records about the Essenes, a separatist Jewish community, that lived beside the Dead Sea at a place called Qumran. It is said that there are between 825 and 870 separate Scrolls. The Scrolls can be divided into three categories: biblical, apocryphal, and non-biblical. For the most part they were written in Hebrew, and some Aramaic, and a couple in Greek. The DSS are regarded by most as the oldest records of parts of the bible.
Much to my surprise and shock, there is nothing in the DSS about him in anything that’s been translated. Scholars and researchers say the Scrolls were written during the period from 200 BC to 68 AD (read “TO 68 AD”) but there was nothing specific about someone named “Jesus” in them. Nor do they mention any of his followers ….”
http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html
Anyone knowing otherwise about the DSS please forego attacks and “opinions” and please just post facts with references and sources here (and please exclude the King James bible when doing so).
May 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Annonymous,
Well, it is not a “spin”, in the first place.
I just compress several logical steps into one huge jump.
Sorry.
1) If there was no conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees over the Doctrine of “resurrection”, as is implied by the Christian theology, then the Pharisees were *not* in any way responsible for having him killed;
2)If the Pharisees were not responsible, who was? In other words, by the doctrine of “vicarious atonement”, Paul shifts responsibility *away* from the Pharisees (his goal is to protect the Jewish priesthood)…and onto “the Jews”;
3) If Christian theology had retained the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of “resurrection” as a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’, it would have been *obvious* why the Pharisees wanted Jesus dead (he threatened their power); and the Pharisees, rather than “the Jews” would have been held responsible for his death. Thus, no hatred of “the Jews”; no Christian anti-Semitism; but, rather, the understanding that the Pharisees were LYING about the Torah and the Prophets.
4) No Christian anti-Semitism = no projection of evil upon “the Jews”;
5) No projection of evil upon “the Jews” after the chaos and horrors of World War I = no Holocaust.
It is more complicated yet; but I hope this makes it a little clearer.
Tray,
Re: the Dead Sea Scrolls
I’ve researched them for more than 33 years. Any research which threatens the fundamental doctrines of Christianity cannot be published in the official journals. The Biblical Archaeology Review will not even publish a “letter to the Editor” which provides an alternative view of the DSS.
All indications are that 1QH–the Thanksgiving Hymns–were written by Jesus. The reasons for this are covered extensively in my book “Jesus and the ‘Resurrection’–the Secret Teaching (Including) Meditations on a Science of Consciousness”. But the media will not allow this to be publicized because it would ruin Christian theology’s understanding of Jesus.
Mark Sommer,
Yes. The cardinal tenets of Christianity *are* untrue:
Jesus was not ‘God’. There is no physical raising of a dead body from the grave (as a *doctrine*). There is no metaphysical ‘heaven’ or ‘hell’. There is no “vicarious atonement”. There is no ‘T’rinity. There is no ‘Rapture’. Jesus will not return on a ‘white horse out of the sky’.
It was for these reasons that Mohammed was sent: to correct the paganism and false doctrines which had turned the Teaching of Jesus upside down.
Michael Cecil
May 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
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